tv NOW With Alex Wagner MSNBC July 22, 2014 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
99% will let you have your goodies for a little while. they don't have to accept the status quo and they don't have to stay behind the walls that you have built. alex wagner from los angeles starts right now. >> the fate of the nation's health care may once again be in the hands of nine unelected judges. it's tuesday july 22, and this is now live from los angeles. >> different federal courts with different outcomes. >> breaking news on what could be a huge set back for the affordable care act. >> the subsidies that make health insurance more affordable on the federal exchanges. that's what's at stake here, it is what devastates the affordable care act, but another just upheld those same federal
subsidies. >> do you zero in on this and say this is why obama care doesn't want to work? >> what changes for now? nothing. >> republicans take the law, independents lean toward the law. both courts are in the d.c. area. this won't get to the supreme court. >> there are four different cases that are working their way through the federal system. for those who are keeping score, we're still ahead 2-1 here. >> today two bombshell rulings through the fate of the nation's health care law once again into legal limbo. in the panel, subsidies that helped nearly five million americans obtain health care this year, that those subsidies
are illegal. >> asserted that subsidies can only be granted to those who bought insurance and states that set up their sewn individual exchanges. so far, only 40 states along with the districts of columbia have set up their own exchanges. the d.c. circuit four decision was followed just hours later with another appeals court decision, one that ruled the opposite. according to to the fourth circuit court of appeals in virginia, tax credits are essential to fulfilling the goals. and that congress was aware of their goals when drafting the bill. quite possibly be resolved once gene by the supreme court. the consequences if the subsidies are indeed eliminated could be disastrous for the nation's health care law. this year alone, 4.7 million people were at 86% of all those who enrolled in the federal exchanges qualified for a subsidy to offset the cost of
their health care coverage. if those subsidies were removed, health insurance would rise by an average of 76%. and if those americans could no longer afford their health insurance, they would likely abandon those plans. for now the white house is keeping a stiff upper lip. >> right now we are confident in the legal basis that supports our case. >> our confidence is rooted in the fact that it is pretty obvious what the congressional intent was here. their intent was for every eligible american who applied for tax credits to make their health care more affordable to have access to those tax credits. >> joining me now is nbc correspondent pete williams. does the end to this lie at the supreme court? >> maybe, maybe not, when you go into a federal court, when you
want to make an appeal, you go to a three-judge panel of the full appeals court, and that's what we got today, two panel decisionses that went in opposite directions, if the same pattern holds when you get to the main federal, the full federal courts if that's what happens here for both sides, then you still have a split and the supreme court might take the case. but if the federal appeals court end up agreeing, it wouldn't seem like the supreme court would take the case. so i don't think we can say this is going to be resolved by the supreme court. >> do you think that the d.c. circuit court decision opens the door to a raft of other lawsuits around the country? >> there's already several lawsuits around the country and this legal lawsuit has been around for a while. whether there will be other lawsuits i don't know, i don't know what that would accomplish. what you have here is this is
not a constitutional question, this is not whether congress has the power to do this, like the last time obama care went to the supreme court. this is the other task that federal judges get, interpreting federal laws, the courts were both in agreement on one thing, that the law is not well written, that it's not crystal clear from looking at the language whether the federal exchanges have the option to -- the right, the authority to give this subsidy for the insurance that's bought on the federal exchanges. one court said, you know, we look at the law, it ain't there, you just can't do it, the other court said, well, it's ambigu s ambiguous, what we do in situations like this is we defer to the agency in charge, in this case is subsidies come in the form of a tax credit. and that's where the disagreement lies. >> one that is certainly going to be litigated in the court of public opinion and in the political arena, nbc's pete williams, thank you as always. joining me now is political editor and white house correspondent at the "huffington post" sam stein, and washington
bureau chief david corn. proof is an important thing, but at the same time, throughout history, landmark pieces of legislation usually go through some landmark process, whether it was the passage of medicare in 1965, or whether it was reagan's immigration bill. traditionally congress tries to work out the kinks in a law, it just happens that that branch of government is no longer functional here? >> i guess in an ideal world, you have a recognition by congress that they need to patch this up. that the obama administration would never let the law go to waste and they could fix this by rewriting the relevant language by people in states that have federally run exchanges are entitled to subsidies. but if you were to impose that fix, you run the risk of having republicans attach extraneous amendments to it or try to
derail the law saying it doesn't work. you're at a standoff basically. apparently it's not a legislative fix should this thing go through the court system and should it be determined that the subsidies are not available. >> david, if we talk about how judges may look at this, judges, the seven circuit court judges who are likely to make a decision on this beyond the three that ruled today, it requires a suspension -- it's screaming -- subsidies to be available to those states that set up their own exchanges and that as brian says, this was some sort of high stakes inducen't. this is clearly and plainly and -- it's been documented. the process by which the aca passed, there was no such intention. >> this is the great question before us. does a typo invalidate a law? that's really what we're talking
about here, what was the intent of the law, and what was meant to be written into the language, all the drafts of the law submitted to courti saying this was a mistake, and as you have noted in the past, this happens often in the drafting of legislation, particularly technical legislation, and it's almost always followup bills that fixes things as implemented u but that is not possible in this tea party controlled ourps so you can't revisit this. if this does go to the full d.c. circuit court of appeal, there are 11 active members there now and there's a 7-4 split in favor of democratic appointed judges because of harry reid's, you know, anti-nuclear filibuster
nuclear option. now that court has a lot of democratically appointed judges and so if you want to hope for the best for the aca, for obama care, they can hope it goes to the full appeals court and they major rule this decision, they're in sync with the fourth circuit and doesn't take the case. >> i have a hard time figuring how this plays out for the republicans. obama care promise subsidies for their new plans but now that promise has been broken too. here is the weird corner republicans have painted themselves into. now they're angry that there is the broken promise of a subsidy, they are angry that the administration delayed the employer mandate, they have painted themselves into a corner where they're actively effectively supporting all the principles of the affordable care act. >> they're arguing that the subsidies were illegal.
you u're not living in a political reality because the subsidies have been issued and people have been receiving it and if you're going to appoint a decision that effectively takes away subsidies from needy people who are getting health care for the first time, then you are in a very politically perilous position, and eventually the republicans will recognize that even if they agree with the court on the legal merits, as a political matter, this is a difficult one to argue and it will complicate it going forward. >> this indication has been pushed forward not just by the plaintiff, but by a guy in west virginia who didn't want to pay $21 a month for subsidized premiums. so it's not just republicans reacting to this, oops look at this case happening, they have pushed this case so if it does end up causing any unpopular
unrest when it is taken away from people, they are in a position of being blamed. >> 7.3 million people are getting these subsidies and republicans know better than anybody, once you have -- once the federal government is helping you out in some way, to take that service away is not good politics for republicans. >> yeah and when they started pushing this case, the health care law was a totally different being than it is now, it was an abstract idea, now when you have millions of people getting insurance, the calculus is entirely different. >> this is what mcconnell is running into, that he wants to repeal obama care, but that means taking care away from hundreds of thousands of kentuckians. the republicans are keeping it -- submit to certain political realities and this is not going to go away for them, this dilemma for the next year or two.
>> this is not going to undercut the reality that poor people, you know, middle class americans are finally getting access to affordable health coverage and this is a good thing independent of politics. >> after the break, as violence and the death toll escalate in gaza, u.s. airlines cancels all flights, u.s. airlines cancel all flights to israel and the latest prospects for a cease fire do not look good. brian can tell us from the center for american progress joins me coming up next on now. . [ mom ] with life insurance, we're not just insuring our lives... we're helping protect his. [ female announcer ] everyone has a moment when tomorrow becomes real. transamerica. transform tomorrow.
ithe part of us that a littwants to play,on. wants to be mischievous, wants to run free, all you have to do is let it out. find your inner minion only at the despicable me minion mayhem ride at universal studios hollywood. . there is still no cease fire between israel and hamas today as the conflict reaches it's 15th day and the civilian death come continues to rise, since midnight last night, israel has bombed over 2,300 targets in
gaza, including fife mosques, a sports complex. hamas has continued its offensive firing nearly 100 rockets across the border. prompting all u.s. airlines, air france and luftansia to cancel all airline flights indefinitely. moments ago, reported that israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu spoke to secretary of state john kerry and asked for his help in reversing the faa's decision. meeting with egypt's president and foreign minister, as well as the head of the arab league. but according to a senior israeli official who spoke with nbc news, there is no lasting cease fire on the horizon, because hamas is not ready to agree on terms anywhere near
what israel says it can accept. over 600 palestinians and 29 israelis have been killed over the last two weeks and more than 118,000 palestinians are now displaced inside gaza. joining me now is msnbc counter terror analyst michael leiter. i know we're on remote here, so i'm going to get started right away t news that netanyahu is asking for kerry's assistance in reversing the faa's decision, how likely is it from an american security perspective that the faa will be inclined to reverse that decision, coming amidst all of the news of that international flight over ukraine. >> my guess is that flights from both the united states and europe will be restarted in the coming days, there's absolutely no doubt that the faa's decision, although prudent is very much p driven by significant fears of the mh 17 disaster. although the rockets pose some
risk, really for israel, this would be a huge blow not to have international flights into and out of ben gurion. the ceasing of flights runs the risk of encouraging hamas to target the airport that much more as an economic weapon against israel. >> that's interesting that you think it could encourage hamas, because some folks said the stoppage of the flight could actually incur a cease fire, do you think that's a bad analysis? >> i don't think that israel is going to be more willing to move towards a cease fire because of this, even though they'll feel the pressure, and from hamas's perspective, any -- they know that if flights can't go in and out of, it's going to put huge pressure on b.b. netanyahu. i think flights in and out of ben gurion will probably
restart, because out iron dome, this is not like what we saw with mh-17, the probability of any flight being shot down or anything like that. >> in terms of what the disaster of the malaysian airlines flight 17 disaster, the ripple effect that has had, one would think this is a direct result of that and that we will maybe see more of this from a security perspective, a real cog any sans over a war zone. >> the shoulder fired infrared missiles that can hit airplanes on takeoff and landing. that's a huge problem around north africa. and i think aviation officials are going to be far, far more attuned to those threats. >> michael leiter, thank you as always for your time and thoughts.
joining me now is senior fellow on national security policy at the center for american progress, brian, thanks for joining me, is there any chance, we know that secretary kerry is scheduled to leave cairo tomorrow, is there any chance that that will be brokered by that time. >> i think the chance is pretty slim for a couple of reasons, first, israel's government has accepted that even though it accepted a cease fire and hamas did not, at the current time it will not accept those conditions. and secretary kerry is working with egypt that currently doesn't have very good ties with the guys on the ground in gas sacha, it looks -- turkey to get these militants to stop firing rockets into israel. >> let me ask you about what the "new york times" calls the testy trio of nations that you just mentioned, egypt, turkey and qatar. who is our -- i mean egypt has
declining leverage here, between turkey and qatar, who do you think is the better negotiating partner? >> it's really hard to tell because in this middle east, it's hard to figure out who's the most capable an reliable partner. my guess is that turkey is a nato ally of ours, qatar is a much smaller city state, if you will, it's a country, but it's much smaller, it has some leverage with these parties. but these forces on the ground in gas sarks they themselves are flagmented. so even if the turks for instance get some agreement with some faction in the palestinian hamas, there may be armed factions that don't agree with that agreement. so this fracturing and fragmentation that we see taking blase in part as a consequence of this bombing will likely continue and will complicate efforts to get a cease fire. >> brian, what do you make of the reports that secretary kerry is not really wanted in cairo for these negotiations. there was a reuters report that -- at the presidential
palace, how much of a slap in the face to american negotiators was that? >> i think these things have happened before, secretary of state clinton when she was there was actually pelted with fruit and other things. egypt is a country i have lived in and the -- towards u.s. policy isn't great. so these sorts of slights i think are common. but what's interesting behind the scenes, many of the countries in the region want the u.s. to play this active local because we have security partnerships with every country in the region, every country we have talked about at least and they know that our military power is unsurpassed so there's still an instinct to work out with. behind the scenes if not in public. >> brian can tell us the centers for american politics. coming up, the white house says that u.s. intelligence to be released later today will provide new information about malaysia air flight 17, suzanne glasser and "the washington post's" susan robinson discuss
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coming up, vladimir putin says he quantitieswan wants a c ukraine and that means russian forces take control. that's coming up next. ♪ in the nation, the safest feature in your car is you. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. which for you, shouldn't be a problem. just another way we put members first, because we don't have shareholders. join the nation. nationwide is on your side.
add a line anytime for 15 bucks a month. low dues... great terms... let's close. introducing at&t mobile share value plans... ...with our best-ever pricing for business. the bodies of malaysian air flight 17 victims are now in western hands and the plane's black boxes have been handed over, begging the question, what happens next? for vladimir putin, it's more stalling and what the "new york times" calls a mixed message of conciliation and bluster. both were on display today, meeting with his security council, putin said he would put pressure on the rebels and cooperate fully with the investigation. but at the same time accused the
west of instigating the conflict. but they remain divided on the need for more punitive sanctions targeting the russian economy as a whole. the meeting was also overshadowed by a disagreement over a pending sale of warships to russia. >> it's very, very important for the europeans to move. it is stunning to me how slow they have been in all of this. >> those concerns were echoed today by the white house that said addition -- evidence relating to the downing of malaysia airlines flight 17 later today. joining me now is "washington post" columnist eugene robinson and susan glasser, let me just ask you how to play if -- i think fairly astutely, there is
not a single instance of putin bowing to criticism by doing what the west demanded, there are plenty of instances of him doing the opposite. bringing the region's dominant power broker inside the tent. do you think that is sage advise. >> honestly, that is easier said than done, i think that putin, the flip side of that is that putin has very astutely managed the west over the last several years and i think this crisis is already playing out in a way that suggests he already knows how to play divide and conquer in the way that the soviets had in their play book too, it was the germans who were the voices today arguing over district european sanctions, you have the french undertaking these arms sales as you pointed out. you had david cameron pointing out that by the way, we brits --
putin is kind of navigated the west and read the rest correctly, it seems to me. >> yeah, eugene, you talk about the relationship between the west and russia, the narrative as to what happened with this flight and the west, is very different to what russia is pushing. the ukrainians, the ukrainian government shot down mh-17 thinking it was putin's plane, intending to shoot down putin's plane or that mh-17 was full of corpses when it took off from amsterdam. to say that somehow the u.s. would be -- sway putin would i think to vastly underestimate how the narrative is being strung in moscow. >> right. i think that would be wishful thinking if we think we're going to sway public opinion inside russia. but i do think that putin is kind of -- well not kind of, is
genuinely in a tight spot here, he wants to keep ukraine in the russian orbit. he doesn't want ukraine to go the way of poland and the west. and so this is -- this is more than an inconvenience for him. this sort of thwarted that whole effort in a lot of ways because it is kind of hardened the opposition certainly of european countries and the united states and the war community against this notion that putin can get away with this through intimidation, i think you'll likely see more closeness between the government in kiev and european capitals and the u.s. than you would have seen otherwise had this not happened. so i think, it seems to me that it's time for putin to change tack in some way if he wants to get what i think it is he wants. >> susan, you mentioned the
germans being a road block to ease sanctions. are you surprised that the germans have not sided with the russians but in some way acting as their protector in this series of negotiations. >> honestly in a lot of ways, that has been the policy more or less consistently that the germans have played with the soviet union before that. 40% of their energy comes from russia and they have pursued more or less consistently a kind of don't rock the boat policy with the russians, they have continued to do so and of course the strained relationship between russia -- score, between germany and the united states
right now over the allegations of spying on america kl herself, this crisis in u.s. german relations has come at a terrible time with angela merkel being putin's main interlocker with the west. that seems to be unhelpful. it seems that the crisis is pushing us more into the arms of the government and kiev but they're a deeply flawed partner for the west in many ways as well. so i just -- i think the tragedy of the flight is that it juntd scores there was this really sordid civil war on the ground in ukraine, in eastern ukraine that nobody really wanted to deal with and nobody wanted to acknowledge, if we had said outright, this is a civil war, civilian planes wouldn't have been flying over it. i think it's a consequence of nobody really wanting to deal with how bad the problem had gotten. >> eugene, you had an idea that we should be giving lethal aid
and lethal weaponry to the government of ukraine to push back on the separatist. you write the most important lesson u.s. policymakers should learn from this terrible event is that sophisticated weapons once given to combatants are impossible to keep under control. the ukrainian government is not exactly an unsullied partner in all of this. there is a real sense in washington to help the ukraine government. do you think it's likely that reason will be triumphed by indignation. look, they're kind of two observati observations, two levels of the observation, one, in terms of giving any aircraft weapons to like nonstate actors, like the
russian backs rebels in ukraine, or various flavors of rebels in syria can lead to unintended consequences which is what seems to have happened in this case you really need to be careful about carrying weapons of any sort into the ukraine because you don't know where those weapons are going to end up or how they're going to be used. but the government in kiev is imperfect to say the least. >> and. >> just ahead, president obama's new secretary nominee is testifying at a key senate hearing, i'll talk with dave wood about the confirmation process and reforms of the va. that's next.
right now senators on capitol hill are questioning secretary -- by partisan witnesses. senator shar rod brown and rob portman and it was far from contentious at the hearing today, senators on both sides of the aisle have welcomed mcdonald very warmly. >> it's tough for # anybody to envision why somebody would take this job. >> manner while, the clock is ticking for congress to pass a bill reforming the scandal in va. separate senate and house funding bills, ones that would allow veterans to seek outside care are stalled in conference.
republican house members are -- cbo estimates to be around $30 billion. yesterday on the senate floor, majority leader harry reid blasted the opposition. >> it looks to me we're going to come back with something. why? because they have too spend some money on these people who were glad to spend the money to take them to war. but now they're back, they're missing limbs, they've got lots of post-traumatic stress problems. a lot of other medical issues. no money there. >> dave, it seems like people are very eager, people in congress are very eager to have a new secretary of the va, but whether they are as eager to actually fix the problem, remains to be seen. were you surprised at how cordial the response was today?
>> i wasn't surprised at all. they're so eager to hand this mess to somebody, i think there was an awareness on the committee that whatever the answers are for the va, they're not going to come out of congress. so they're looking to this guy who was a captain in the 82nd airborne and chairman and ceo of proctor and gamble to somehow save the va, but boy, i think l think there was also a recognition that senator burr mentioned, why would anybody take this job? it's an impossible job. >> given the level of alarm, the indignation, a lot of it i think rightly placed, but given how much sort of energy there was to see general shinseki step down and get some new blood in there, i feel like the momentum to actually fix this problem i won't say has evaporated but as diminished dramatically. why do you think that is? >> i think there's a growing
recognition that the problems at the va are deep and they're not going to be fixed easily. and i sort of shied away when you said fix the problem with the va, because i don't think that's -- reading his testimony and listening to him this afternoon gave you a sense of how awfully difficult it's going to be to change the culture. look, it's never been done, as far as i know, to change the culture of a federal agency that runs on a civil service system, you know, there's no game plan, there's no template, it's not been done before. i think there's a growing sense of unease on the hill that we're not going to be able to solve the problem because we're egger
to hire more doctors and medical staff which is not going to increasingly solve the problem. you know, it was -- it was as if there was a gigantic storm brewing outside to the hearing room this afternoon of people just being kind of like uh-oh, this is a huge problem and we're not going to be able to fix it before the election or probably thereafter. >> david, let me ask you, are you surprised that the republicans in the house are asking for offsets to the funding, given the fact that we have spent $4.3 trillion in the wars in afghanistan and iraq and those wars were put on a credit card, it must be said. are you surprised that the republican party which purports to be the party of patriots and hawks is paying -- is requesting that any payment -- any increased resources directed to
america's veterans be paid for? >> before the u.s. went into iraq, people were all for it. we meet to agree now to put the money aside to take care of them. and that person, the debate just sort of rolled over representative huli from oregon or washington and she ee's gone from congress now and now we're seeing it. i don't think breaks down easily along partisan lines, but i don't think it's shameful that people who were enthusiastic about prosecuting these wars and sending young men into combat are now reluctant to ante up to help get them back to good health. >> dave wood, it's always good
to see you, thanks for your time. >> coming up, republicans have a three pronged attack for immigration reform. send troops, send back refugees and send nothing to the froor of congress. i'll discuss when the national council joins me just ahead. but first, bertha coombs has the market wrap. >> dow up almost 63 points, the s&p hitting a new record, closing up 10 points while the nasdaq gained 31. this afternoon chrysler issuing a recall of some 800,000 jeep models both in the u.s. and canada. the brand cherokee and also the jeep commander model years between 2005 and 2007. they say they will be contacting those car owners, it has to do with an ignition switch problem that could make it difficult to steer. that's the situation here at cnbc, we're first in business worldwide. carpenters and even piano tuners
and protein for those serious muscles. [guy] aarrrrr! [announcer]even accents of vitamin-rich veggies. [guy] so happy! you love it so much. yes you do! but it's good for you,too. [announcer] healthful. flavorful. beneful. from purina. what's the republican party's solution to the humanitarian crisis on the southern border? it turns out, they don't really know, moments ago, senate democrats confirmed that they will move forward on a bill to provide $2.7 billion in order to address the crisis, which is $1 billion less than president obama's original request. but republicans who have been ringing alarm bells for weeks on the crisis, are not so sure about that solution or really any solution. alabama senator jeff sessions told politico, i'm not saying no
money is needed now because we want to treat children and be helpful and human tarn, but we don't need four billion, that's clear. senator richard shelby was more blunt. i don't plan to support it, period, the gop solution, end a program that allow s dreamers t stay in the country. joining me is president and ceo of the national council on la raza, thank you for joining us. let's talk first about the democrats' plan, are you at all optimistic that we are going to see some kind of solution passed through congress to deal with what is happening on the border? >> well, i sure hope so, but more importantly, i think it's important for folks to know that latino voters across this country are watching this closely and we care about how these kids are treated. and we're going to be looking to see how both parties are responding, but we believe that
congress should act and should definitely act before they leave for vacation on this august recess. there's no reason why we shouldn't have the resources we need to treat these children with the humane protections we know they are seeking and here in the u.s. so voters are watching carefully. >> we know that ted cruise is a proopponent for different actions for dreamers. setting aside whether or not that actually gains any traction, the mere suggestion of that, what does that do for the republican party among latino voters and young latinos. as i mentioned, the republican party, and particularly speaker boehner and the extremers in his caucus need to understand that for us in the latino community, we're a voting bloc and a growing voting bloc and denying aid to these children is not going to get our vote and
denying and repealing doca is not going to get our vote. blocking immigration reform is not going to get our vote. so they need to decide how are they going to include the latino voters out there in this country who care about all of these issues. so far, we have seen no effort and if anything, the way they have handled it has been to send a signal that they don't really care much about being an inclusive party or building their base. >> yeah, but it's fair to say as you pointed out, both parties are imp indicated in this, "washington post" abc poll that was released last week shows that hispanic voers are not happy about the border crisis. 54% disapprove, 40% approve. the dhs had in its possession last summer, given where we are right now, given the white house's initial position on amending the 2008 trafficking convictionless act, are you
satisfied with how the administration has handled this? >> well, frankly, we want to make sure that these kids are getting the top attention of the white house and of democrats of course as well. our sense is that they need to be doing a lot more to process these kids more quickly so they can get into youth shelters as opposed to being in these detention centers. and there will be accountability as it relates to the president in particular, because i think folks will be looking to see what he's able to do administratively on this issue or on the larger humanitarian crisis of providing any other relief as it relates to those who are living in the shadows without protections of the law. so latino voters are going to be looking towards both parties to see how they are reacting and responding to the issues they care about. and we care about how these kids
on the border are treated and we want them to be treated humanely and with respect. and these kids are frightened and they need to have the resources and they need to have the attention so we can move on to the bigger issues. >> let me ask about those bigger issues because the part of this that would suggest, cecilia mun knows was clear. these kids need to be deported and sent back to their home country, we need to send a very clear message on this. how optimistic are you on the president's broader deportation review? >> i want to be clear, that we do not support any effort to deport these children without having them have due process as is currently in the law and we do not support changing the law, so we want to make sure that due process is protected for these children, and we do not support the law that would dilute that provision. so for us, we're going to be watching this issue and our hope is that we can move quickly on to the broader issues that we're
facing administratively with the president on immigration. >> president and ceo of the council of la raza, thank you as always. that's all for now, i'll see you back tomorrow at 4:00 p.m. eastern. the ed show is coming up next. good evening, americans and welcome to the ed show live from new york. i'm ready to go, let's get to wooerk. >> beneath these streets lies 100,000 barrels of oil. >> north dakota's oil boom. >> we're going to be the richest state per capita a. >> one of the richest oil booms in history. >> it's the wild, wild west. >> i will not sacrifice my family and i will not sacrifice our ranch. >> good to have you was tonight, folks, thanks for watching, t